Slug-Lines.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Archived Slugging Topics > Hybrids
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - URGENT HELP NEEDED NOW - END HYBRIDS ON HOV
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Forum LockedURGENT HELP NEEDED NOW - END HYBRIDS ON HOV

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345>
Author
Message
NoSUV View Drop Down
New Slug
New Slug


Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 0
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NoSUV Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 2005 at 9:33am
The problem remains on how to reduce the OVERALL congestion. HOV lanes generally have excess capacity, especially compared to the regular lanes. A balancing effort is needed. One way is to allow some of the SOVs into the HOVs, which is what the hybrid exemption does quite nicely. Another way is through the use of tolls, which would allow market forces to achieve the balance by raising/lowering the toll until the desired balance is achieved. Toll could be graduated based on occupancy: $4 base fare, reduced by $2 for each additional passenger. Could make "CF" plates count as an additional person. HOV-3 still ride for free; SOV hybrids pay $2; regular SOVs pay $4. If HOV lanes are too crowded, double the toll. If balance too far the other way, cut the toll in half. Everyone wins.
Back to Top
Bob View Drop Down
New Slug
New Slug


Joined: 14 Dec 2001
Status: Offline
Points: 0
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 2005 at 9:50am
It's elitist.
It ends slugging.
It increases congestion.
No guarantees that HOV will remain free or even cheaper.
No guarantees of anything.
We give up control of public highways.
Non-compete clause impairs future construction.
It increases pollution.

Everyone loses.

Bob
Back to Top
NoSUV View Drop Down
New Slug
New Slug


Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 0
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NoSUV Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2005 at 7:50am
quote:
Originally posted by Bob
[br]It's elitist.
It ends slugging.
It increases congestion.
No guarantees that HOV will remain free or even cheaper.
No guarantees of anything.
We give up control of public highways.
Non-compete clause impairs future construction.
It increases pollution.

Everyone loses.
--
Not elitist - in fact, more egalitarian than system currently in use.
Won't end slugging - picking up slugs saves driver $2K/year.
No guarantees that HOV will remain the same as today - in fact, HOV highly unlikely to remain the same.
We have as much control of public highways as now.
Non-compete clause has no bearing.
Pollution decreases.
--
Was on HOV 395 4pm on 4/4/05. No other cars around for 1/4 mile. Regular lanes moving at a snail's pace. Only a matter of time before transportation officials figure out that HOV has unused capacity much of the time compared to regular lanes and get around to fixing it. You have a choice: do the ostrich with your head in the sand, or come up with a better solution. BTW, saying that the current method works is ignoring the facts.
Bob

Back to Top
Bob View Drop Down
New Slug
New Slug


Joined: 14 Dec 2001
Status: Offline
Points: 0
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2005 at 7:57am
Which expert came up with the concept that we have two choices:
do nothing, or HOT? That is bogus and is one of the things that outrages so many people about this.
Back to Top
NoSUV View Drop Down
New Slug
New Slug


Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 0
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NoSUV Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2005 at 12:28pm
OK. So aside from HOT and extending hybrid exemption, what's your idea?
Back to Top
Bob View Drop Down
New Slug
New Slug


Joined: 14 Dec 2001
Status: Offline
Points: 0
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2005 at 1:27pm
I have lots of ideas, but I don't really think it is up to us to propose them. What to we pay VDOT for?

My main principal is to not ruin HOV by doing the conversion. I am not opposed to tolls as long as new concrete is laid down to widen the road such as the Dulles Greenway and other new build roads. NO conversions of successful lanes. I have said that a full toll road down to Fredericksburg could be a valid concept.

But again, we are being set up here with this choice of nothing or HOT. As HOV users, I dont think we can or need to agree on what all the alternatives are. But for heavens sake, they should be laid out and discussed. That is not happening at ALL!
Back to Top
dickboyd View Drop Down
New Slug
New Slug


Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 0
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dickboyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2005 at 2:14pm
quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
[br]OK. So aside from HOT and extending hybrid exemption, what's your idea?


1. Provide more park and ride lots.
2. VDOT or County negotiate with Churches, bowling alleys, swim clubs, soccer fields and businesses that can handle slug parking. Behind mall buildings, county park buildings, PG&E or VDOT maintenance yards, etc.
3. Allow on street parking for slugs on streets like Guinea, Wakefield Chapel or Braeburn in Fairfax County. Eliminante the route 29 buses. Use the money to PAY slugs to ride. Use an on demand van for mid day service.
4. Establish Police patrols for the slug park and ride lots.
5. Provide downstream nodes for slugs. Slugs may have to switch rides once or twice for shortest trip. Emulate packet switching
6. Improve slug pick up points in DC, Crystal City, Alexandria and Skyline.
7. Allow slug parking in VRE and METRO lots.
8. Market the drive alones in the regular lanes on the advantages of slugging.
9. Ramp meter the regular lanes with queue jumpers for HOV vehicles.
10. Target 1,800 vehicles per lane per hour in the regular lanes instead of 2,400 vplph. Combine ramp metering and easier passenger pick up to get the car count reduced.
11. Stop promoting METRO, VRE and public buses. Money pits. Use the money to PAY slugs to ride.
12. Pay companies and hotels that have vans to shuttle commuters to better pick up points.
13. Review land use plans where allowance was made in floor area ratios for reduced parking. Build more parking for slugs. Space to be rented by VDOT, County or City.
14. Advise certain politicians from California to put a sock in it. Not to mention any names but Dan Issa comes to mind.
15. Air reruns of Sesame Street in which Big Bird talks about bigger than. Have elected officials view the show, write a 500 work essay and explain to their constituents how the show applies to commuting.
16. Repeat the TV viewing exercise using some common facts. Twenty-four hours in a day. Why waste it sitting in traffic? Acceleration kills fuel efficiency. Why operate roads in stop-go (mostly stopped) mode?
17. Complete the service roads that parallel Little River Turnpike between the City of Fairfax and Shirley Highway. Encourage slug parking on the service roads.
18. Nullify anti-jitney laws.

Oh, did I mention more park and ride lots? Did I mention reviewing land use plans vis-a-vis required parking? Did I mention more parking on service roads?

dickboyd@aol.com
Back to Top
SpongeBob View Drop Down
New Slug
New Slug


Joined: 06 Oct 2004
Location: VA
Status: Offline
Points: 0
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SpongeBob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2005 at 10:12am
Can someone please put a sock in NoSUV's mouth?

Must we constantly waste our time and energy answering the misinformed assertions of bow-tie wearing Republican hypocrites spouting their discredited free-market 'philosophy' that the Almighty Market will solve all our problems?

For one thing, if you open the HOV to anyone willing to spend money to access it, it will clog IMMEDIATELY because you cannot set a toll cost high enough to prevent me, and others like me, from paying it to get to work on time. I will pay any amount up to $50 each way to make sure I get to work on time. And there are thousands more in the 95 corridor who will do the same. The 'Market' won't adjust behavior until it becomes exorbitantly expensive.

So set a toll and watch the jam. Who will suffer the most from Toll Roads? The less-affluent who can't afford $15 or $20 to get to work. They will just have to lump it in the regular lanes. But you fat cat free marketers don't give a F about them, do you?

Take your drivel elsewhere.
Back to Top
NoSUV View Drop Down
New Slug
New Slug


Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 0
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NoSUV Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2005 at 12:02pm
SpongeBob: you're talking in circles - and you agreed with me! You said so yourself that if you raise the toll high enough, market forces will achieve the balance. How high is high enough? Good question - you seem to think with no analysis that it's above $50. At 10 trips per week that's about $25K/year. My goodness you make a lot of money!
Back to Top
dickboyd View Drop Down
New Slug
New Slug


Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 0
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dickboyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2005 at 2:25pm
From http://www.slug-lines.com/forum/post.asp?method=ReplyQuote&REPLY_ID=12348&TOPIC_ID=1920&FORUM_ID=11

quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
[br]The problem remains on how to reduce the OVERALL congestion. HOV lanes generally have excess capacity, especially compared to the regular lanes. A balancing effort is needed. One way is to allow some of the SOVs into the HOVs, which is what the hybrid exemption does quite nicely. Another way is through the use of tolls, which would allow market forces to achieve the balance by raising/lowering the toll until the desired balance is achieved. Toll could be graduated based on occupancy: $4 base fare, reduced by $2 for each additional passenger. Could make "CF" plates count as an additional person. HOV-3 still ride for free; SOV hybrids pay $2; regular SOVs pay $4. If HOV lanes are too crowded, double the toll. If balance too far the other way, cut the toll in half. Everyone wins.



A better way to achieve free flow would be to convert more of the drive alones to slugging.

What stands in the way of conversion? In my opinion, two things.

1. Parking. Slugging does not work without adequate parking. While the powers that be contemplate their navels determining how to enforce HOV, they miss the more important task of providing more and better parking.

2. Publicity. The message I'm hearing from the elected representatives in northern Virginia is that there is no need to provide parking. Instead, the message I hear is just let people buy low emission vehicles to solve the clean air problem. I do not hear or see a concerted effort to get more slugs.

I also hear a message that slugs should be crushed. Or is that just wishful thinking on the part of one of the supervisors that is getting tired of torturing commuters and pulling the legs off of butterflies? Another message I hear is "slugs, go away, we need that land for more development." [:-(]

If there is discussion of alternative operation, the concentration should be on obtaining free flow on ALL lanes of Shirley Highway. Getting a few Clean Fuel vehicles into the reversible lanes is counterproductive. Allowing single occupant vehicles sends the message that there is more than enough capacity.

Allowing SOVs of any stripe sends the message that no effort is needed to get more passengers.



dickboyd@aol.com
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.063 seconds.