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Pele
Advanced Member

USA
316 Posts

Posted - 02/04/2009 :  11:54:18  Show Profile
A lot of people say they'll quit slugging when HOT lanes come into effect.

I fail to see why HOT lanes will harm the slugging system.

Driver has a choice either to pay some unknown amount or pick up slugs and get in for free.

Unless I've missed something, won't this encourage slugging?

Jerry Senfield
Junior Member

32 Posts

Posted - 02/04/2009 :  15:34:28  Show Profile
HOT lanes are a great idea for slugs. Plus you can always squeeze a few in the trunk opposed to 20 stuffed into a mini van.
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ybarra
New Member

10 Posts

Posted - 02/06/2009 :  12:22:05  Show Profile
As I said before, HOT lanes should enhance slugging and being creative folks that we are, we can "sell" our ridership to save the scapers money.
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go2grl
Moderator

138 Posts

Posted - 02/06/2009 :  12:37:39  Show Profile
I believe one of the reasons is that HOT lanes will add more vehicles to the lanes, adding additional time to the drive. They also haven't answered the question of how they are going to tell if there are 3 or more in the cars, what they are going to do about the choke points at each end of the HOT lanes and if there will be a maximum number of "free" 3 or more cars allowed. I also read that they are only going to be required to maintain a 55mph rate, which goes back to the first reason. Let's not even get into the fact that they are not going to add any more room to the existing HOV lanes, just reline them to fit 3 lanes into the current space. Should I also mention the major delays that will be caused by the aforementioned relining which will probably take a year or more to complete?

I'm already looking for a job closer to Stafford.
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mpatoka
Senior Member Member

USA
137 Posts

Posted - 02/06/2009 :  14:34:21  Show Profile
Theoretically, with HOT, slugs should have some value 24 hours a day so there should always be a demand, not just the 5.5 hours per day now. If I'm driving I-95 sometime during the day, I'll be looking for slugs to avoid paying the tolls. If I'm slugging, I would hope there are cars wanting me to ride anytime during the day.

That's the easy part. As you can see, there are a whole lot of other issues that will potentially screw up this great system.
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Jody
Advanced Member

347 Posts

Posted - 02/06/2009 :  16:19:07  Show Profile
Carpool exemption was removed from CA. Why would anybody think that wouldn't happen here?

2 or 3 yrs ago, someone drafted a anti-hot lane petition for the I-395/I-95 corrider and asked for input. I specifically drafted a clause that stated for the length of the contract (80 yrs), carpools ride free.

I don't care how much Ybarra says carpools will ride free. Unless VDOT inserts that specific language into the contract, there is no guarantee that carpools will ride free. They haven't signed a final contract; the details are still being negotiated. Any provision can have language that states it can be renegotiated after a certain amount of time has passed. There called "amendments" folks. And the HOV exemption ending at 9 am & 6 pm? Won't exist anymore. Toll, 24/7. Any SOVs used to accessing HOV at those times will pay a toll. Bet on it.

If HOV is converted to a toll road 24/7 with no carpool exemption, there will be no incentive for drivers to pick up slugs.

Commuter Connections is going to be busy with people trying to set up carpools to split the toll and garage parking.

We live in a wealthy area. Why do you think in CA the toll roads were nicknamed the "Lexus Lanes?" If people can afford to pay the toll, there is no incentive to pick up slugs on a road that is designated a toll road 24/7.
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CallmeMrSlug
Senior Member Member

198 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2009 :  00:28:00  Show Profile
Are you that naive to think we would be having hearings on it if the deal was not already done? Hearings for VDOT means they talk and we hear them talk. With new stimulus money, VDOT going to make this a priority. It sounds good to them, public project, throw money to a private business. Private business creates jobs. Personally, hot won't affect me. I have an alternative. I'll pay a little more, 40.00 a week, but I will get to work when I need to. But for anyone south of Springfield, this is your worst nightmare come true. Let us see, your home values are lost and now you face an expensive and at least 90 minute commute. And you voted for you local representative because...
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jlcnole
New Member

13 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2009 :  08:37:51  Show Profile
ybarra, please don't pretend that you are one of the slugging community...
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SpongeBob
Advanced Member

USA
679 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2009 :  09:11:31  Show Profile
Love how all these newbies start posting in favor of HOT lanes. I've been slugging for 14 years and have never once, ever, met a slugrider or slugdriver who is not completely opposed to these toll roads.

I strongly suspect that Transurban/Fluor employees post on these sites to give the impression that there is some disagreement in our little community about this issue. Same tactic as the anti-global-warming minority uses. Not surprising Tu/F would do it when you consider the huge money at stake for them.

In honor of tonight's meeting, I'm going to devote some time today to playing some of Spongebob's historic (and histrionic) hits. Like the quote from the local transportation official about limiting HOV access to ensure sufficient revenue for the tolling company.

Edited by - SpongeBob on 02/09/2009 16:10:43
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Pele
Advanced Member

USA
316 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2009 :  08:37:00  Show Profile
Oh, I wasn't aware that the car pool exemption was NOT in the contract... I also did not know about California kicking the carpoolers out.

Given this info, I'm now against the HOT lanes...
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scottt
Moderator

415 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2009 :  09:13:10  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by Pele

Oh, I wasn't aware that the car pool exemption was NOT in the contract... I also did not know about California kicking the carpoolers out.

Given this info, I'm now against the HOT lanes...



They didn't kick the carpoolers out, they just started charging them. Something that was promised would never happen.

Hence why I have NO faith that the "HOV will always be free" statements made here will be true.
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SpongeBob
Advanced Member

USA
679 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2009 :  16:09:12  Show Profile
Here, Scottt, you have it exactly right.
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UriahAKiser
Starting Member

1 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2009 :  22:15:12  Show Profile
Hello everyone, I am a reporter with the News & Messenger in Prince William County and have been covering the proposed HOT Lanes. As a resident of Prince William County of more than 20 years I know for a fact how well slugging has worked in the Northern Virginia area, and how some are worried about how HOT Lanes could damper their success. I also know how many people are looking for congestion relief and would pay anything to get it no matter the cost. I can see some of the comments inside this forum are heated and have some emotional attachments. I would like to speak with you about what the HOT Lanes mean to you, and I hope you will keep me informed of anything related to slugging in the area, as I aim to keep slugging issues in the headlines. I have reached out to a few of you who have listed a personal email address listed, but please feel free to contact me either by phone 703-878-8065, or by email. I would like to feature some local opinion in my story, aside from just the transportation officials. Thanks!
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n/a
deleted

632 Posts

Posted - 02/24/2009 :  10:38:44  Show Profile
OK, consider this:

HOT will take something that has already been paid for by tax allocations as part of the Interstate Highway System (thank you President Eisenhower!), and will charge citizens to use it all over again. But before that happens, the HOT contractors will build toll booths and access roads partly funded by taxpayer subsidies. That's three fees to ride on the same road, so far!

But that's not all; when carpoolers exceed a certain level of the traffic volume, HOT contractors will recieve taxpayer funded compensation to make up for "lost" potential revenue.

And there's more: VDOT is prohibited from building, widening or improving roads adjacent to HOT lanes, that may compete with the HOT lanes and reduce "potential" revenue. So forget about any non-HOT road improvements in the future!

And as far as the promises that "HOV riders will always be free," no technology exists that can identify and exclude HOV cars from toll paying cars! One proposal that I have heard would charge ALL cars the prevailing toll and require HOV cars to petition for any toll refund.

OK so if all of this is not offensive enough, consider this: every dollar spent on HOT tolls erodes the discretionary income base and will not be spent in support of local economies. Those dollars will not be spent in the local stores, they will not pay local salaries, they will not fund local bake sales, and they will not contribute to the local tax base. HOT tolls paid are monies that leave the local communities, they will leave the country as revenue for foriegn HOT contractors. HOT tolls are robbing the lifeblood of local communities!

And if you are still not convinced, look to the history of urban planning. For decades urban planners have fought to discourage the one thing that erodes inner-cities faster than any other factor: affluent urban flight. HOT lanes encourages affluent urban flight by allowing those who can afford the tolls to move out to the exurbs! HOT lanes have earned the moniker, "Lexus Lanes" to describe the evening flight of affluent commuters away from the cities where they earn their big paychecks.

Still not convinced? What abouth the decades of lessons learned about the benefits of carpooling? Reduced pollution, reduced traffic congestion, reduced fossil fuel consumption! HOT lanes provides an option that includes NONE of these smart options. Given the easy "pay-to-ride-alone" commuter option, those who can afford to will snub these proven benefits of carpooling. And every single occupant vehicle puts two other cars back on the road (the two HOV riders who now must drive).

There are some things for your article!
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TWO
New Member

20 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2009 :  15:54:30  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by raymond

Given the easy "pay-to-ride-alone" commuter option, those who can afford to will snub these proven benefits of carpooling. And every single occupant vehicle puts two other cars back on the road (the two HOV riders who now must drive).

There are some things for your article!


Don't you think the popularity (and multiple extensions of the law) of the hybrids made it obvious that people will PAY to ride in the HOV lanes? How many people went out and bought a hybrid solely for that reason? I personally know a couple people that bought them for that reason (no, I'm not one of them).

HOT lanes are BAD news, but I do like the idea of 24 hour HOV rules!

Edited by - TWO on 03/03/2009 15:55:05
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toomuchcoffeelady
Senior Member Member

197 Posts

Posted - 06/10/2009 :  09:07:01  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by ybarra

As I said before, HOT lanes should enhance slugging and being creative folks that we are, we can "sell" our ridership to save the scapers money.



You are a corrupt politician, and you have no business being on these boards. Look after the best interests of those who elected you to represent them, not your own pockets!

ain't free speech a wonderful thing, until you don't like the views being stated? - Ceejay2
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