If not HOT, then what?

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   No one kvetches about toll roads more than the Sponge, but kvetching ain't gonna get us nowhere: We need alternatives to propose.

	We can't "Just Say No" to toll roads without saying how we could improve traffic.  I'm preparing a position paper for the Committee to Save HOV and we need everyone's best ideas.

	Nobody knows these roads like we do.  Nobody understands the unique dynamics of 95/395 and the psychology of NoVA commuters like we do.  Nobody is better qualified than we are to come up with solutions.

	So what are they?

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SpongeBob Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 06 Oct 2004 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote SpongeBob Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: If not HOT, then what? Posted: 13 Jul 2005 at 9:21am
	No one kvetches about toll roads more than the Sponge, but kvetching ain't gonna get us nowhere: We need alternatives to propose. We can't "Just Say No" to toll roads without saying how we could improve traffic. I'm preparing a position paper for the Committee to Save HOV and we need everyone's best ideas. Nobody knows these roads like we do. Nobody understands the unique dynamics of 95/395 and the psychology of NoVA commuters like we do. Nobody is better qualified than we are to come up with solutions. So what are they?

KCWolfPck Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 12 Nov 2003 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote KCWolfPck Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 13 Jul 2005 at 10:41am
	cricket cricket cricket

SpongeBob Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 06 Oct 2004 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote SpongeBob Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 13 Jul 2005 at 11:16am
	Thanks, KC. Real helpful. I'll be sure and include it in my report.

Bob Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 14 Dec 2001 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote Bob Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 13 Jul 2005 at 12:04pm
	There are lots of potential alternatives to the two plans that have been put forth. The big problem is the current mentality that it is either one of these two proposals or nothing. So VDOT needs to step back a couple of giant steps and put all of the other options on the table as well. That is just plain common sense. The second point I would like to make is that we need to have a set of principals first. In my opinion it is as simple as "Leave successful HOV lanes alone - Dont touch them in any way." The only excess capacity we have now will be needed for future HOV growth and that is that! That is the starting point. I am not willing to start looking at options where we have SOVs or any toll payers on this road. I think this should be federal law - regarding conversions of HOVs. Of course there are other options. These include additional sources of tax revenue, regional tax districts, other pure toll road proposals that dont harm the HOV, etc. In a couple of hours I could come up with a bunch. We have a conundrum here because we don't know how this is going to play out. Is VDOT committed to these two proposals or nothing? If that is the case, then I think we do have to put forth specific alternatives. The problem is, it is like giving up on our principals if we start proposing things like limiting HOT to X number of permitted SOVs or limiting it to HOV2, etc. Perhaps one answer would be to actually come up with a list of alternatives that result in leaving the 95 HOV as is so there is room for future growth. Then have the other ones in reserve if it becomes obviousl that there will be HOT as proposed if we do nothing.

cdatkins Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 24 Jun 2003 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote cdatkins Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 13 Jul 2005 at 12:55pm
	Here a couple of options: 1) Make the trains a more viable option: cost and time make the VRE a less attractive option for commuters. Lowering the cost and making the trains run a bit faster would take more commuters off the road. 2) Get the Metro down to eastern Prince William County. This might be the cheapest way to get more people on the rails. Getting it over (or under) the Occoquan won't be easy or cheap, though. Still, running it to the Horner Road lot and then to the Potomac Mills mall would be great for everyone. I know this will cost a lot of money, but it has to be done eventually. 3) Explore changing the times that HOV is open. If HOV were only restricted from 6 to 8:30 in the morning, wouldn't that alleviate some of the mainline congestion? What would be the impact on HOV congestion, though? 4) Look at ways to encourage telecommuting. Simply giving a tax credit or some other inducement for telecommuting would work wonders to get more people working from home. Employer inducements will work, too, but with many employers located in DC these may not work as well. 5) Experiment with HOV-3 and HOV-4. As a way to limit the impact of further growth, maybe we could require HOV-4 for cars that enter the HOV from points south of Stafford, or south of Dumfries, etc. Points north could still enter with 3 people in the car. Maybe this won't work, but we should be creative. 6) Extend the HOV to points south of Dumfries. This is a no-brainer. As more and more people move to the Stafford/F-burg area, we need to extend the lanes as far south as possible. Can't really think of any others right now.

emancilla Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 30 Sep 2003 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote emancilla Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 13 Jul 2005 at 1:04pm
	Excelent ideas, cdatkins!!!

shahedC Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 25 Oct 2003 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote shahedC Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 13 Jul 2005 at 1:19pm
	I agree with most of your points, even the costly ones. They may be costly options, but they're good options. Except for the HOV-4 rule based on entry point. You can't really enforce that one. A lot of people who can't get that 4th person from Dumfries can always lie about their entry point once they get further up north.

cdatkins Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 24 Jun 2003 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote cdatkins Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 13 Jul 2005 at 2:09pm
	quote: Originally posted by shahedC [br]I agree with most of your points, even the costly ones. They may be costly options, but they're good options. Except for the HOV-4 rule based on entry point. You can't really enforce that one. A lot of people who can't get that 4th person from Dumfries can always lie about their entry point once they get further up north. You would have to enforce it at the entry point. Every other week, you put a cop at southern entry points and ticket every car that tries to enter without 4 people. You would write the law to just make it illegal to enter at certain points with less than 4 people.

cdatkins Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 24 Jun 2003 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote cdatkins Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 13 Jul 2005 at 2:12pm
	7) Choose one day every week (Friday?) and just open the HOV to everyone, morning and evening. No restrictions on use. This will cause some slugs to drive, but some will work from home or take the VRE. It also is an overture to those that don't use HOV, for whatever reason, and might lessen regular lane congestion.

Luddite Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 15 Jun 2005 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote Luddite Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 Jul 2005 at 9:21am
	The collapse of HOV is a symptom of poorly-regulated development. Treating a symptom is not usually a good idea. Must fix the root cause. 333 new apartments in Woodbridge Hilda Barg is praising will likely add 500 cars to the roads. This is the sort of poorly-regulated development that directly caused the collapse of HOV. You know I cringe when I open my mailbox and see the Old Bridge Observer which often contains articles about new fill-in housing projects in Occoquan and Woodbridge. Stop worrying about HOV hours or HOV-4 or Hybrids. Look to change your county supervisors. I read this week that developers and builders have formed a new advocacy group. There's some good news folks. As if they weren't aligned too closely with our Supervisors already. Sorry for the rant.