HOV Times

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   Hey 122582, why are you even here? Why are you polluting the bandwidth with your nonsensical babbling? Why would you even chime into this discussion but to spread your selfish, egotistical goofball theology? You are not even a participant in slugging, you're a taxi driver! Until you embrace the simplistic beauty and perfection of slugging, your opinion doesn't even matter.

	The discussion about HOV hours, however, goes hand-in-hand with other valid suggestions such as HOV-4, no exemptions, and adding HOV lanes as a way to build on the success of the HOV system. 

	For the average sulgger who commutes during 'peak' hours, extending the HOV restriction hours would not really matter except maybe in finding parking. It would, however, adversely affect the SOV lanes as those early and late commuters who skirt the HOV times could be thrown back into the SOV lanes. For HOV commuters and slugs there are some real advantages; some commuters would exercise flex-time (early or late) schedules and use sluging, taking those riders and drivers off the roads during peak hours. 

	This is one of a very few good solid discussion points to come out of this forum in a long time!

	Here's another: "Flex-lanes," or lanes that change direction to accomodate the traffic volume during the day. Imagine a whole highway with lanes that change direction based on commuter volume.

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n/a Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 17 Dec 2001 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote n/a Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: HOV Times Posted: 14 Nov 2005 at 2:28pm
	Hey 122582, why are you even here? Why are you polluting the bandwidth with your nonsensical babbling? Why would you even chime into this discussion but to spread your selfish, egotistical goofball theology? You are not even a participant in slugging, you're a taxi driver! Until you embrace the simplistic beauty and perfection of slugging, your opinion doesn't even matter. The discussion about HOV hours, however, goes hand-in-hand with other valid suggestions such as HOV-4, no exemptions, and adding HOV lanes as a way to build on the success of the HOV system. For the average sulgger who commutes during 'peak' hours, extending the HOV restriction hours would not really matter except maybe in finding parking. It would, however, adversely affect the SOV lanes as those early and late commuters who skirt the HOV times could be thrown back into the SOV lanes. For HOV commuters and slugs there are some real advantages; some commuters would exercise flex-time (early or late) schedules and use sluging, taking those riders and drivers off the roads during peak hours. This is one of a very few good solid discussion points to come out of this forum in a long time! Here's another: "Flex-lanes," or lanes that change direction to accomodate the traffic volume during the day. Imagine a whole highway with lanes that change direction based on commuter volume.

NoSUV Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 14 Jan 2005 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote NoSUV Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 Nov 2005 at 2:25pm
	wmcg: It ties, in a round about way. Increasing the HOV hours on the express lanes decreases the time for the express lanes to be used by SOVs. Currently, there are quite a number of SOV drivers who try to beat or outwait the rush by leaving earlier for work or returning later. Changing the hours for HOV might have the unintended problem of clogging the main lanes even more - and that is likely to be untenable with the state government.

SpongeBob Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 06 Oct 2004 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote SpongeBob Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 Nov 2005 at 1:59pm
	Who gives a flying fig newton about the selfish drive-holes in the regular lanes? Let them move closer to their work or condescend to rideshare. If they don't like their commute, TOO BAD! Now, let's get back to a more thoughtful discussion of the impact of extending the HOV-only hours... One thing I fear would happen is that the lots would fill even earlier in the morning. The 234 lot, for example, now fills by 6:30. Push the HOV start time to 5:00 a.m. and it will fill by 5:30. The other lots, too, might fill an hour earlier. Probably would, IMO. In other words, rather than spread the congestion out, it would move it forward an hour, then leave the lanes emptier in the final hour. If you expand the times, then you need to expand the parking facility that supports it.

NoSUV Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 14 Jan 2005 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote NoSUV Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 Nov 2005 at 12:53pm
	wmcg: It ties, in a round about way. Increasing the HOV hours on the express lanes decreases the time for the express lanes to be used by SOVs. Currently, there are quite a number of SOV drivers who try to beat or outwait the rush by leaving earlier for work or returning later. Changing the hours for HOV might have the unintended problem of clogging the main lanes even more - and that is likely to be untenable with the state government.

wmcg Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 21 Jul 2005 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote wmcg Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 Nov 2005 at 9:21am
	I don't know where some of these posts are coming from, but my original topic was looking for support from VDOT and members of congress along with the state police to get the HOV operating hours changed to start them earlier and continue them longer. I believe this, admititly a bandaid, could be valuable in allowing for a smoother commute.

122582 Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 28 Apr 2005 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote 122582 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 Nov 2005 at 8:06am
	Most SOV and hybrid drivers I know do not and will not pick up "hitchhikers". To get more drivers picking up riders, riders need to start sharing the cost. Slugs would improve their social status among the majority (folks who pay for their own ride to work) if it became known they offer tips. If you don't believe me, just hold up a sign that says "I tip" and see if you aren't called even if you're 20 people back in line. Keep slugging alive - tip your driver today!

NoSUV Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 14 Jan 2005 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote NoSUV Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 Nov 2005 at 6:59am
	NoSB: Again, as you point out, the express lanes during commuting hours generally can carry the current load with vehicles with less than HOV-15; in fact, that also includes SOV hybrids. Still looking to your right? Also, most new technology needs help to become mainstream. Remember the conversion from leaded to unleaded cars? There was little to no incentive to get the more expensive unleaded vehicles, and there were all sorts of people out there trying to figure out how to cheat the system. The conversion succeeded because the goverment made it so. Just as you so clearly see the need to get people to carpool, many of us also see that the nation must covert to hybrid technology - perhaps even with alternate fuel sources - to reduce fuel demand as well as better the environment. Non-hybrid vehicles, regardless of the rationale, don't contribute to optimizing that. Now comes the part where you need to incentivize people to get out of their non-hybrid vehicles and into something more fuel efficient, like hybrids or clean fuel vehicles. Hybrids are reasonable elements in this regard; clean fuel vehicles are even better. All calls for their elimination in the express lanes is unreasonable and unnecessary. Perhaps we should instead be asking - have you recruited a vehicle owner to buy a hybrid today?

N_or_S_bound Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 20 May 2005 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote N_or_S_bound Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 11 Nov 2005 at 8:43pm
	As Americans we are too prone to look for a "silver bullet" solution to any challenge we face. It usually boils down to an all-or-nothing proposition in our minds since we don't want to give it too much thought (it's like thinking hurts our brains or something). Yeah, sure, go all mass transit. You've now established a single point of failure in a system just like DB just pointed out. A balanced approach to any system is to build in some redundant capability. The current solution needs tweaking and any REASONABLE person can see that decreasing vehicles should be a high priority to restore the flow rate. Any solution that goes in the opposite direction is downright foolish and unreasonable...except to anyone who has an outright equity in promoting that (faulty) solution. Flow will increase with fewer vehicles in the HOV. Maybe someday the need will be there to eliminate all vehicles that carry less than 15 people. For the time being, the system appears to be able to handle vehicles carrying less than 15. Now comes the part where you need to incentivize people to get out of their single occupant vehicles and into something carrying more than 1. HOV-3 is a reasonable element in this regards. HOV-4 makes even more sense since most vehicles are engineered with seating for at least four. Single occupant vehicles, regardless of the rationale, don't contribute to optimizing the system. They only serve to reduce the overall efficiency for all concerned---except those who are SOV in the HOV. Most see that. Any call for an excessive response to a suboptimized system is unreasonable and unnecessary. Dick makes the case many times elsewhere: recruit a slug. Who have you talked to about becoming a slug? Try it today and see if folks are interested in saving time, money, resources, the environment, and others I've not thought of yet. NoSb SOV because you can, HOV because you care!

dickboyd Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 13 Nov 2004 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote dickboyd Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 11 Nov 2005 at 8:08pm
	quote: Originally posted by AveMaria [br]I agree that the BEST solution would be mass transit ONLY. I would give up picking up slugs if the Metro was extended to PWC. I would take the OmniBus IF the fares were cheaper. How I would love to sit back and read a book during my commute. Be careful of what you ask for, you just might get it. Cheaper fares in mass transit? As it is, only about 40% of the operating costs and none of the capital costs of transit come out of the fare box. Where does the money come from? Partly from the fuel taxes. Fuel taxes that were once dedicated to roads. Partly from sales taxes, partly from property taxes. You must have a reason, or several reasons for citing mass transit only as the BEST solution. Care to share with the group? Do you really want METRO? If so why? Sit back and read? Have you tried the Itty-Bitty Book Light? or earphones and recorded books? dickboyd@aol.com

AveMaria Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 29 Mar 2005 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote AveMaria Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 11 Nov 2005 at 3:08pm
	I agree that the BEST solution would be mass transit ONLY. I would give up picking up slugs if the Metro was extended to PWC. I would take the OmniBus IF the fares were cheaper. How I would love to sit back and read a book during my commute.