Compromise: Hybrids = HOV-2

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Originally posted by ETC

I own a hybrid and I realize that the exemption was a gimick to get people to purchase them. I'm not unrealistic to think that exemptions will be in place forever. Whatever. I'll either park my car and slug or pick up slugs or find a carpool or start one. Once the "free ride" is over, I'll just give others the free ride. Trust me, most slugs are happy of a safe, clean ride no matter what car they get in.

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I actually rather enjoy being in a Hybrid, especially some of the less common ones. I'm keeping my eye out for one of the earlier Hybrid Ford Escapes to replace my truck and commuter car at the same time.

I like looking at the energy flow/MPG graphic displays.

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Originally posted by NoSUV

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Recommend you check your historical facts. The lanes are officially Express Lanes. Even the permanent signage indicates that. After all, they are restricted less than 50% of the day!

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Please enlighten all of us where we could find the historical facts concerning the HOV lanes. As I was stations here back in the early 80's and I don't recall it being for mass transit only.

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Originally posted by NoSUV


So, let's talk about your '91 Honda and compare it to a hybrid. Do you still have to have an emissions test every other year? Or is it, like a hybrid, exempt? How does it compare for NOX or CO2 compared to that Highlander?

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From emissions test results (15/25 MPH Dynomometer readings)
NOx (ppm) 20/12 - Limit: 1146/1047
Carbon Monoxide (CO%) 0.06/0.08 - Limit: 1.43/1.84
Hydrocarbon (ppm) 1/2 - Limit: 168/164

They are well under limits and actually well under what they'd be brand new from the factory thanks to some creative reprogramming of the engine control module, custom wiring on the fuel injection electronics, and a high performance catalytic converter.

I bought the car and went over it from stem to stern. Better mileage and emissions than most compact hybrids, and it cost me less than five thousand dollars because I don't have the money for a fancy schmancy new hybrid... Well I do, but I don't believe in spending more than a couple thousand dollars on a car... You can't touch a hybrid for less than 10grand.

If you want something that's emissions exempt, how about my Ford pickup that runs on BioDiesel made from the grease from a Chinese Food restaurant?



Thanks for the great rundown of the history of the HOV lanes. I really don't care about the policies that were in place in the 1980's; I was in elementary school then.

We need a solution that works NOW.
Never mind the ecological benefits of a hybrid (Or lack thereof) Not everyone has the money or wants to spend the money to pay for a hybrid.
Everyone who has a 4 seat vehicle has the ability to pick up an additional few passengers.

And you are the one that bought up Cash For Clunkers... It was completely irrelevant. I voiced my opinion on the program, which was probably not a good idea seeing as how it wasn't part of the argument.

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Originally posted by Pele

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Originally posted by NoSUV

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Originally posted by Pele

Forget eco-friendliness. The environment is something to be sucked into an engine, burned, and sent out a tailpipe.

HOV is to reduce the number of vehicles on the road and save space, not the environment. It's why motorcycles are allowed; four motorcycles can fit into the space of one fairly large sedan.

End the Hybrid exemption. In fact, raise the limit to HOV-4 like it was in the 80's.

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Actually, the reverseable lanes on I95/I395 are EXPRESS LANES. HOV became an expemption after the lanes were built and began operations. The hybrid exemption is a natural evolution. After all, do you recall that earlier this year there was a program called "Cash for Clunkers?" The major difference between the two programs is that for the latter, you spent your tax dollars so someone else could have a discount on improving the environment. With the hybrid exemption, the potential is for more cars to be traded in with better results.

It's really time to end the HOV exemption and allow only hybrids and mass transit into the express lanes. More cars would be off the roads as people in "informal" car pools would be faced with the choice of taking a bus and getting to work/home as if they were slugging, or being in the regular lanes at a crawl. Of cours, transportation revenue would increase as bus ridership increased, making it a win-win for everyone in Virgina.

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If the HOV lanes are for environmental purposes, tell me, why am I NOT allowed to drive in them in my 2 seater 1991 Honda CRX HF. It gets 52 MPG, which is comparable to many modern Hybrids. It beats out the Toyota Highlander Hybrid, which IS allowed.

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Pele,
Congratulations! You've managed to mangle several different points to come up with something totally off base. Let's see if we can break it into smaller segments for you.
- The lanes were originally designed and used as express lanes which could only be used by mass transit. The thought back then was that motorists would give up their cars for a bus ride if it would get them to their destination more quickly. The Express limited the on/off ramps and the merge - the planners felt that the merge slowed traffic. Compare with the express lanes in the Chicago area.
- HOV came about as an evolutionary thought. Even though the express lanes removed 7,000 vehicles per day, there was quite a bit of excess capacity in those lanes, and still quite a bit of traffic in the regular lanes. HOV was introduced primarily as a means of balancing the flow. Planners tinkered with the number of passengers required to balance that flow, wtih HOV-4 being used at one time on I95/I395. You'll note that even today, there are different HOV standards for different interstates in Virginia, with I66 being HOV-2.
- The evolutionary thought process continued as the legislature realized that Clean Special Fuel vehicles, just hitting the market, offered a couple of benefits: cleaner emissions and better fuel economy. If you'll recall, the rising pollution along major commuter routes was growing exponentially, along with the number of Code Red days. It's not mentioned so much because of the great success of the hybrid exemption, as well as other initiatives. The fuel economy was not the primary driver for the exemption, but of course, everyone benefits from the supply/demand dynamic of fuel usage.

So, let's talk about your '91 Honda and compare it to a hybrid. Do you still have to have an emissions test every other year? Or is it, like a hybrid, exempt? How does it compare for NOX or CO2 compared to that Highlander?

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Originally posted by NoSUV

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Originally posted by Pele

Forget eco-friendliness. The environment is something to be sucked into an engine, burned, and sent out a tailpipe.

HOV is to reduce the number of vehicles on the road and save space, not the environment. It's why motorcycles are allowed; four motorcycles can fit into the space of one fairly large sedan.

End the Hybrid exemption. In fact, raise the limit to HOV-4 like it was in the 80's.

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Actually, the reverseable lanes on I95/I395 are EXPRESS LANES. HOV became an expemption after the lanes were built and began operations. The hybrid exemption is a natural evolution. After all, do you recall that earlier this year there was a program called "Cash for Clunkers?" The major difference between the two programs is that for the latter, you spent your tax dollars so someone else could have a discount on improving the environment. With the hybrid exemption, the potential is for more cars to be traded in with better results.

It's really time to end the HOV exemption and allow only hybrids and mass transit into the express lanes. More cars would be off the roads as people in "informal" car pools would be faced with the choice of taking a bus and getting to work/home as if they were slugging, or being in the regular lanes at a crawl. Of cours, transportation revenue would increase as bus ridership increased, making it a win-win for everyone in Virgina.

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Cash for Clunkers was not an environmental improvement policy.
All the traded in cars were wasted. They poured an abrasive substance in the engine instead of oil and revved it until the engine was destroyed.

In the process, many engines overheated and spilled various fluids out onto the ground. Check YouTube for the destruction videos.

In addition, nobody took into consideration the energy it took to create those new cars. Many of the cars that were traded in were late 1990's to early 2000's SUVs still in good condition. I couldn't trade in my girlfriend's Honda Accord because it got 27 MPG when new. Unfortunately it was a clunker... It leaked several quarts per week of transmission fluid, black smoke came from the tail pipe if you accelerated, and the bumpers were falling off... We would have gladly traded it in on one of those "clunkers" that was traded in and destroyed.

Cash For Clunkers was a wasteful program that was intended to stimulate the economy. Fortunately for Korea and Japan, they produce the most fuel efficient vehicles.


If the HOV lanes are for environmental purposes, tell me, why am I NOT allowed to drive in them in my 2 seater 1991 Honda CRX HF. It gets 52 MPG, which is comparable to many modern Hybrids. It beats out the Toyota Highlander Hybrid, which IS allowed.