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Kids in the slug line at 234

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    Posted: 09 Dec 2011 at 12:24pm
quote:
Originally posted by Leanansidhe

quote:
Originally posted by Pele



On top of the child endangerment, isn't allowing your children to attend school outside of their district fraud of some type.



Yes, it is, if the primary physical custodian has them more than 51% of the time. A lot of divorced/separated parents think it's ok to go out of district if one parent has a 1-bedroom apartment in town and joint legal custody, but it's not. And considering the kids are walking up 234 at 0530, chances are slim they have a 50/50 physical custody split with someone who lives in Fairfax County.

Glad I'm not the only one thinking WTF.




From this info, it looks like the slug line has custoday of them more than 50% of the time if ewe add in the skewl tyme.

No one has to let any rider into the car, so that wud include juvies. You should probably be 16 in order to slug or be with a parent.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AngloAustrian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2011 at 4:35pm

As far as I know (having kids of my own and having tried to research this in the recent past when deciding when to leave my kids alone), Fairfax County has GUIDELINES (not the law) about when children can be left alone, in day time hours, nighttime hours, etc.
http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/dfs/childrenyouth/supervision_eng.htm
When I was trying to figure out the law for Stafford County for my own kids, I found there were NO actual LAWS about when to leave children alone, and was told to follow Fairfax County guidelines . In these guidelines, you will see that parents have to make their own minds up. For all we know, the children in question may be following all the requirements for safety. I certainly wouldnt let my 10-year old slug at 5:00 a.m., but I am pretty sure she would be capable of doing it as long as she had a phone in her possession and strict instructions as to what to do in case of an emergency, and I showed her how to do it. We all make executive decisions when we get into a strangers car. I make an executive decision when allowing my kid to wait on the street for a bus. Are you going to report me for that? She has instructions as to what to do in case of a deviant approaching her or an emergency.
So, based on these GUIDELINES, and the fact that the kids havent been run over or similar, it would appear to me that these kids are probably capable of doing what they need to do to get to school, thus the parents appear to be making the right decisions for THEIR children. As far as what a ten-year-old looks like, who knows. One mans 10-year-old is another mans 14-year old. My 14-year old looks 18, and my 10-year-old looks 12. So, we dont know for sure how old these kids are, but what they are doing does not appear to be against the law.
I do find, as a European who has wandered around the streets of London alone at age 12 without a cell phone (a long, long time ago), and as a child who played out all day in the fields until dusk (around the time of the Moors Murderers , no less (look it up)), that Americans can be slight worry warts when it comes to kids safety. I am surprised by the number of parents who do not let their child play outside. Why? Because of the one in a million chance (and its a pretty small chance) that they might get abducted. The statistics are in favor of these kids who are slugging being fine for the duration, mostly because the majority of people are kind and will help them and not hinder them, and the kids probably have some rules that they have to follow that their parents set.
Whether these kids are breaking the law by attending a school outside of their home district, thats another question and, frankly, none of my business or anyone elses unless you happen to be paying Fairfax county taxes. It's certainly not abuse or neglect. I dont know whether being a mandated reporter means that you have to report them going to the wrong school. I dont know anything about that subject. But, unless the kids are behaving in an unsafe manner (running across the road without looking, for example), then it is my unofficial opinion that they should be left alone.
Lastly, I looked up the VA definition of a mandated reporter as it pertains to children.

http://www.dss.virginia.gov/files/division/dfs/cps/intro_page/mandated_reporters/resources_guidance/booklet.pdf
it basically says that if you suspect a child of neglect or abuse you need to report it. Sounds quite fair, except there is nothing in what you have said that gives an indication that these children are being abused or neglected. Given extra responsibility to get to school, yes, but they are not crying, bruised, hungry and stealing food, fighting, or anything that we can really see based on your description that would indicate that they are abused or neglected. So I dont believe that your definition of a mandated reporter in this case is valid and I would let it go now. You have done your best, and that is all that matters.

Hopefully, this helps the discussion. I have tried to be informative and respectful.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leanansidhe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2011 at 3:01pm
quote:
Originally posted by Bodybykids

The only issues are the ones that you are creating in your own "mandated" mind. I did look up what a "Mandated Reporter" is and I still stick by my everything I have said. You have issues and need to get a life.



If that is genuinely how you feel, then I am extraordinarily greatful that you are not in a position to evaluate whether or not cases dictate involvement/evaluation by outside organizations. You are seriously expressing the opinion that mandated reporters mind their own business/get a life. Unbelievable. How far the pendulum has swung in your case to 'who gives a crap what happens to other people' from the typical societal concern about the members of one's community. I am going to assume you are exceptionally young and insulated, else you would have a significantly better grasp of why that attitude sets us on a course of misery.

Until you can provide cites that indicate there are no legal or ethical violations here- I've outlined several, not a one of which you have acknowledged or disproven, and most of which have been based on the information you yourself (perhaps unwittingly) provided- then I shall stick by my own perception of you as willfully ignorant, incapable of reasonable discourse, and in desperate need of gaining some perspective on how to approach other people in a rational way. Honestly, if you hadn't consistently come across as shrill and petulant, I would actually have given your opinion weight. Sadly, you have chosen otherwise.

And now I shall take my own advice and simply ignore you, as you clearly have nothing to add to the discussion. To the other folks who have been addressing the issue and each other calmly and coherently, I appreciate your input.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bodybykids Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2011 at 1:55pm
The only issues are the ones that you are creating in your own "mandated" mind. I did look up what a "Mandated Reporter" is and I still stick by my everything I have said. You have issues and need to get a life.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leanansidhe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2011 at 12:39pm
quote:
Originally posted by Bodybykids

Leanansidhe - you really need to get a life (preferably one that involves your business).



You do realize that you essentially made it my business by describing the family as "struggling" and "displaced"? Or do you still not understand the concept of a mandated reporter? I am going to assume the latter, since you seem genuinely focused on not having a reasonable, adult, back-and-forth discussion. Please go look up the definition before telling me I need to get a life, because your ignorance on the subject makes it exceptionally difficult to explain just about anything to you.

Perhaps, if this subject distresses you so- to the extent that you are unable to actually address any of the salient legal and ethical concerns being raised- you should revisit your decision to rejoin the thread after insisting you were done.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bodybykids Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2011 at 7:56am
Leanansidhe - you really need to get a life (preferably one that involves your business).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leanansidhe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2011 at 10:29pm
quote:
Originally posted by Bodybykids

OMG....give it a rest. This is a forum about "slugging" not the "Life Story of people who slug". Leanansidhe information is inaccurate to say the least. Please stop speculating about why these young people are slugging. So what, they get up early.....



I have absolutely no idea what dog you have in this fight, or why you feel the need to consistently be abrasive and accusatory on your posts. YOU posted that this is a struggling, displaced family... I not only speculated nothing in that regard, but cut you a lot of slack in going under that presumption in subsequent posts. NO ONE else has confirmed what I'm saying? What part? That there are kids slugging? Didn't you yourself confirm that, several times? That they're underage? If there are five, and going by your own words two are over 18, what does that make the others? Or the biggest stickler for you, that I've seen the youngest in line alone? Again, I invite you- or anyone else with doubts- to stop by one morning and see for yourself. Ask the folks who are in line every day...most of whom are older are likely don't spend a lot of time tooling around on message boards.

Again I point out that I've called both the police and SS, risking my professional license if they find my report was made maliciously or grossly inaccurately. I presented the information to them as I did here- in good faith. What do you have to back up your version, other than attempted misdirection?

And while I should know better than to rise to such bait, I'll toss out there anyway: how familiar are you with studies about children and sleep? I would be more than happy to link a few. "So what they get up early" is an extremely unhealthy attitude for a parent to have...unless you genuinely think that going out of county to a public school is worth losing an hour or two of sleep. (shrug)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bodybykids Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2011 at 8:32am
OMG....give it a rest. This is a forum about "slugging" not the "Life Story of people who slug". Leanansidhe information is inaccurate to say the least. Please stop speculating about why these young people are slugging. So what, they get up early..... I slug because it is a cost effective method of getting back and forth to work. The omniride bus is approximately $7 one way without a smarttrip card, $5.35 one way with a Smarttrip card. Express Buses out of the Pentagon are $3.65, Omnilink local Bus One Way is $1.20. So a roundtrip fare is approximately $21.40 - 23.70 depending on whether they have smarttrip cards or not. 4 - 5 people and that's pretty pricey per day / week. I would opt to slug.

NO ONE has to give them a ride if they don't want to just as they don't have to get into someones car if they are uncomfortable. They seem to be getting back and forth to wherever they are going just fine. I would be concerned - VERY CONCERNED - by a 10 year old being left to slug and would immediately call the police but because NO ONE else is confirming that this actually happened, again I question the accuracy of what Leanansidhe is posting. I hope that their situation whatever it may be improves and things get easier for them. I wish them all the best and I support their efforts to continue to get to school/work or wherever they are headed.

SLUGGING is supposedly one of the safest ways to move about and has been relatively incident free.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leanansidhe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2011 at 9:15pm
quote:
Originally posted by SuTaRiCh
Children can attend school outside their district if they are going to private school. I ride VRE most days and used to see a bunch of high schoolers going from Fredericksburg to Alexandria, going I believe to Bishop Ireton High School. Also, I think it is accurate that kids in Virginia are allowed to go to to a different public school if it is closer to where their parent's work..



The school in question is a public school. And in Fairfax county, the 'close to parent's work' is applicable only through elementary school (it also covers day care providers).

Mycroftt: my comment about riding the bus was made before I realized this is an every day occurrence. While they could easily walk ten feet to the left and take the omni ride to the pentagon for less than $10/week, eliminating the concerns with getting into a car with a stranger, allegedly they're struggling financially and this is their best option. Thus, I retract that comment.

I worked with kids for almost ten years, and have a decent eye for ages. While I could point you to the photo on the school website that clearly puts the older girl in High school, I won't because although the school has the right to put that photo up, we don't have the right to exploit it. The middle girl carries a glittery spiderman backpack and looks 1-2 years younger. Then there's the youngest girl- at most, she's 11. Unless BodyByKids would like to pop back in and insist that one of the girls is 20 and in high school, or 20 and carrying a glittery spiderman backpack, I'm going to hazard a guess and say it's not one of them. There are two boys with them, one of whom was not with them the first two days; one of the boys may very well be 20. The other looks more in the 17-year range, but let's say he's the other 20 year old. That still leaves two underage girls getting into cars alone. And despite their insistence, there are a number of witnesses to the youngest being left alone at least once. Why don't you pop by l e morning and take a look? Or again, BodybyKids seems to have more personal insight into this; perhaps she can offer hard evidence.

Let's set everything else aside and focus on this: we allegedly have a struggling displaced family for whom things are so bad they will get three minors (at least) up and out the door by 0500 to stand in line and do something our parents always told us not to.. get into a car with a stranger. We do it every day, true, but we are adults and are able to weigh the risks and benefits, and choose accordingly. Were you slugging last month when the construction held up traffic? It took me 3 hours to get to work that day. What will the tardy slip look like for these kids? Surely they can't let anyone know they're living out of the county. Imagine not only living in such a desperate situation that you have to travel 2 hours to school every day, but living with the fear that someone might find out. What happens if the 'responsible' older siblings get sick? Do all the rest of them stay home?

Last week I was in a car where the driver forgot where he was going and ended up passing the exit we needed. It happened again tonight. We've all heard or experienced stories of drivers who suddenly decide they're dropping you off somewhere other than the agreed spot. If they do that with adults in the car, what's to stop them from doing the same with kids? And will the kids say something?

Let's look at the flip side. The state I grew up in has clear liability laws for unrelated minors riding in personal cars. It's one of the main reasons (back when I worked for the state) people transporting minors in their own cars were required to have a specific (much higher than state minimum) level of car insurance. I find it difficult to believe things have changed so much in the intervening years, or that a progressive state like this one wouldn't have similar laws. Yet I doubt any 'regular' slug driver would be carrying extra insurance for such a circumstance. So, as I mentioned earlier, it's an issue for the driver as well. Luckily the kids are only going to the pentagon- imagine the issues if they were traveling across the state line.

I stand by my belief that if this family is in such dire straits, they need help beyond slug rides. There's no shame in seeking that help, nor is there shame in being concerned about a questionable situation. (shrug) No easy answers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mycroftt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2011 at 3:29pm
quote:
Originally posted by Pele
Who cares if they're too good or not to ride the bus.

Egos and images are not at stake here. It's the safety of the kids that's the important matter.




I guess it was important to the original poster - important enough to specifically mention it, at least.

Just as I don't believe the kids think they are "too good" I also don't think there is necessarily as much risk as some others seem to believe. There doesn't seem to be a good consistent description of how old these kids really are, so they may be older and more wordly than is being portrayed. I don't know - maybe there is a problem there or maybe not. If I believed that there were 10-year olds left on the slug line by themselves I would be as concerned as anyone else. I guess I should characterize my feeling as "skeptical" rather than "unconcerned."

The hysteria about them leaving their neighborhood with their 20 year old siblings, and thus having no hope of receiving life-saving medical attention should they require it, is just nonsensical - the so-called risk of that is the same whether they are slugging or riding in a car driven by their big brother.
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